KILL SCREEN 036 // Part 2: Dylan Walker of FULL OF HELL Seeks the Humanity in Know-how

Picture by A.J. Kinney

“You might be right here, and it’s stunning, and escaping isn’t at all times one thing unhealthy.” –Firewatch, 2016

Despite our prolonged and extremely thorough first half of our dialog with Stuffed with Hell vocalist Dylan Walker—specializing in his previous and current with video video games—the co-nerds at Kill Display screen discovered that there was nonetheless a lot left to debate regarding the medium and, specifically, its future. Undeterred by beforehand speaking about fears of waining curiosity, frustration with the trade’s unhealthy habits and outright anger in direction of the neighborhood’s worst members, Walker expresses a blissful outlook for the artwork of gaming, each in its know-how and creativity with the prospects for digital escapism nearly infinite and a welcome retreat from a harsh actuality. Looming tasks in the end result in the top of our time collectively, nevertheless, with everybody returning to their each day lives and ready for the longer term to finally unfold. Regardless of this being our longest interview so far—thanks for taking this journey with us so far as you could have—we hope to contemplate this much less a settled matter and extra the beginning of a fair longer correspondence over time to come back.

You talked about in your latest Decibel story that, “there is no such thing as a reality to life and that you’ve loads of existential fears.” Do you search video games that discover these existential fears or do you usually search for video games which can be extra of an escape from that feeling?
I feel extra usually I need an escape from that feeling as a result of I’ve at all times had bother confronting that stuff until I’m writing for a band or one thing, after which I simply dive into it. However in any other case, I’ve at all times had this factor in my life the place I’ve run from that stuff. These at all times find yourself being my favourite movies and favourite video games, however which may have been one of many the reason why I used to be form of hesitant to play The Final of Us to start with. I simply heard it was such an emotionally heavy factor. I’ve form of come round to confronting that form of stuff the previous few years, so I’ve been attempting extra stuff that’s possibly somewhat bleaker. There’s simply a lot bleakness in my head day-to-day. I really feel like I simply didn’t have area in my mind for these sorts of tales on a regular basis. That’s in all probability not that unusual, however I might say as a rule I need an escape. However escape’s boring typically, I’ve realized.

I’m [Michael] of an identical disposition, towing that line between staring into the void with a few of these tales. Silent Hill 2 is one in every of my favourite video games of all time. You wanna discuss a bleak sport, it doesn’t actually get far more bleak than that.
Yeah, it feels good although to confront these issues. I’ve come round on loads of that stuff. I’ve been attempting to push myself to look at the stuff I do know I actually like, regardless that it’s emotional labor at occasions. The Final of Us II, when it got here out and I performed it by means of 3 times in a row, it was an excessive amount of. I didn’t even understand it as a result of I appreciated it a lot, however it was an excessive amount of emotional labor to undergo time and again. It was humorous. I used to be like, This sport is miserable me, I feel. [Laughs] I gotta take a break, play Zelda or one thing.

Silent Hill is an efficient instance. Even the soundtrack is, to me, so icy chilly. Just about all of the Silent Hill video games—at the very least, I don’t know what’s been made after [Silent Hill 4:] The Room—however these video games’ soundtracks are bleak as fuck. Generally I really feel like the alternatives of synthesizers sometimes remind me of some actually bleak-ass dungeon synth or one thing, possibly? These soundtracks are miserable. I feel they only put me in a headspace. Like, each single time. These are nice video games.

As any individual who makes use of a special soundscape than lots of people, do you discover that soundtracks catch you typically for his or her use of various devices or tones?
Oh, positively. So far as video video games go, I feel my huge man rising up was Nobuo Uematsu, the Last Fantasy man. I take heed to these orchestrated soundtracks on a regular basis nonetheless. I suppose it strikes me extra in movie once they do extra experimental, bizarre textures and stuff—it may well sound fairly terrifying if it’s utilized in the correct manner. However sure, sound design in video video games is important. I truly wasn’t enjoying an entire lot of video video games with headphones, particularly console stuff, till the final 4 years or so. If the sport has actually good sound design? It’s so next-level. Taking part in The Final of Us Half II with encompass sound headphones on, it’s a lot extra intense. It’s sick.

Are there any that talk on to your musical sensibilities or something that you just simply discover personally pleasant?
I don’t actually take a look at issues [as], “That is influential as a result of you may see a direct by means of line to the music that I make.” Like I used to be saying, these Uematsu soundtracks, particularly I by means of IX, these are so, so, so good. I nonetheless take heed to the absolutely orchestrated variations and the unique sport variations. They’re simply actually memorable to me. They simply caught in my mind. That’s in all probability primary. Silent Hill soundtracks are superior. The Secret of Mana soundtrack. I don’t even like that sport that a lot, however the soundtrack’s superb. Chrono Set off soundtrack, clearly. So, so good. Chrono Cross soundtrack is loopy, too.

The Donkey Kong stuff makes me chuckle enthusiastic about how a lot individuals love the music. I get it on the identical manner, however it’s Donkey Kong Nation. It’s simply actually fascinating. Due to the way in which they needed to make soundtracks for these older gen methods the place it wasn’t absolutely orchestrated—it was loads of MIDI stuff and form of lo-fi—it has its personal aesthetic that persons are at all times going to like. Mega Man soundtracks are superior, too. Mega Man X soundtrack significantly. I performed the older Mega Man video games and stuff, however I actually gave my greatest shot to Mega Man X. I couldn’t beat it, however I gave my greatest shot to it and people songs stick out to me. Online game music’s actually cool. It provides rather a lot.

Would you ever be focused on attempting your hand at making a sport soundtrack? What would a Dylan Walker sport soundtrack sound like?
I feel it might be over my head, however me and [guitarist] Spencer [Hazard] at all times discuss eager to do scores for one thing. I feel we’d have a great time if I did one thing. This dude Lustmord did a soundtrack for this film known as The Empty Man. Folks love that film—I feel it’s OK—however the soundtrack for it’s improbable. It’s tremendous atmospheric and creepy. I feel I might be coming from a spot like that the place it might be minimal. I don’t like when there’s music blasting the entire time. Typically, if it’s not like Mega Man or one thing, I hate guitars in in online game soundtracks. I don’t need to hear [mimics chugging gutiar] some form of half-baked, 60 percent-heavy pseudo-metal bullshit. I simply don’t need to hear it. I don’t care. I don’t like these ripping Japanese guitar solo sort soundtracks essentially, both. I get it, I perceive—it’s simply not my type. I just like the actually atmospheric, form of drone-y or extra ambient sort stuff.

If I had every other expertise in my bones, I might need to have the ability to make one thing like a Donkey Kong Nation or Secret of Mana soundtrack the place it’s simply these stunning, serene synth-y songs. I don’t know. They’re all earworms and it’s peaceable feeling to me. So, I feel I might need to make one thing both minimalistic—like, drone-y—that might in all probability go nicely with a survival horror sort sport.

I don’t suppose they’re actually making survival horror that I wish to see. Do you guys do not forget that Silent Hills P.T. demo? That’s just about the beginning and ending level for me. I keep in mind when that was out. I keep in mind touring and all of us have been like, “Yo, that is so fucking scary.” All over the place we went, we have been like, “Get the P.T. demo, we’ll present you the P.T. demo.” I feel I would really like engaged on a sport like that that was actually atmospheric and form of surreal. After which the soundtrack could be some form of minimalistic, drone-y, ambient sort factor. However once more, form of over my head. Possibly sometime we’ll get that chance, however usually talking, that’s the place I feel I’d land.

Did you ever play Scorn?
Yeah, Scorn’s sick. I imply, not essentially my factor, however design-wise, it’s horrifying wanting. It’s fairly cool.

That’s additionally Lustmord.
Oh, I didn’t even know that. That’s fucking superior. He’s superb. He’s an ideal match for that. I feel simply because I’m a fan of that that type, that strategy to darker music, I feel that might be the place I’d need to go. It will in all probability find yourself being form of spinoff, although, to be trustworthy. I can’t think about. I really feel prefer it takes loads of effort and also you need to sit with it. However yeah, rating stuff’s cool. [Laughs]

Aside from Shadow of the Erdtree, which accurately everyone is canceling all of their plans for that to come back out…
Yeah, I paid for that instantly. [Laughs]

Are there every other video games that you just’re wanting ahead to arising?
I used to be speaking to my buddies about this the opposite day. I’m excited for no matter that dude that made Stardew Valley [Eric Barone/ConcernedApe] is making. I feel it’s The Haunted Chocolatier . I can’t watch for that. Chucklefish is producing this little indie known as Witchbrook. I don’t actually care about enjoying a witch/wizard faculty sport—that’s cool—however I will likely be anticipating that, positively. Like I discussed, that sport Enshrouded is in early entry. It’s not even out but and so they’ve already patched it after, like, a month with a ton. They’re truly listening to the participant base on Reddit. They’re partaking with all of them and doing what they need, so I feel that’s truly received some potential. They’re billing that as some bizarre hybrid cross between the Breath of the Wild type between Minecraft and Elder Scrolls. On paper, that’s my form of sport, so I’m fairly psyched about that. I’m psyched for extra Valheim updates.

I don’t know although, in any other case. I’ll simply be sitting round ready for Elder Scrolls VI and hoping that’s good. I actually hope to god that’s good as a result of I don’t even know if half VII comes out. The principle dude Todd [Howard] is just not going to be in all probability concerned, not that it in all probability issues anymore. And who is aware of? I imply, I is perhaps 50 when the following one comes out so, as a result of I’ve gotten a lot mileage out of Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim, I’m hoping it’s good. I just like the shittiness of these video games, for the file. I watch Oblivion NPC movies on a regular basis and I’ve seen all of them on YouTube. I’ll simply put them on once more. Or watching loopy, offended individuals on the road with the Oblivion encounter music on, that shit’s so humorous to me. It’s virtually extra cultural, however I’ll nonetheless sustain with what Bethesda’s doing.

I’m open to new stuff. Like I stated, I’m retrying that Last Fantasy VII Remake and never hating it, simply taking it for face worth. I’m certain there’s one thing I’m forgetting. I’m excited for no matter FromSoft does subsequent, too. There’s a couple of gamers on the market proper now which can be growing which can be simply fully loopy. I truthfully have a very robust feeling that no matter CD Projekt Purple does subsequent will likely be actually nice out of the gate as a result of they received such a tough smack on the nostril with the newspaper from the entire world. The sensation in a band if you put out one thing and other people say it sucks or persons are trashing you on the web, that’s a common expertise. It’s hardly anyone, it’s such a small, little world that it’s not that huge of a deal. I can’t think about pouring years of my time into one thing that I like a lot and it simply will get bumbled so exhausting on the finish after which the whole world—thousands and thousands of individuals—are simply shaming you. They eliminated the sport from the shop and all the things. So, I feel CD Projekt Purple goes to place up no matter it’s—the following Witcher sport or no matter—it’s going to be fairly loopy. I’m assured.

I [James] think about that being a troublesome state of affairs, too, for individuals who labored on the sport.
That’s my major factor past any particular sport: I hope there’s somewhat little bit of a shift in how they deal with the human beings which can be making this stuff. Possibly, hopefully, they’re not like, “Let’s simply have A.I. make it.” I do know they use A.I. already for texturizing and little shit like that—I don’t actually suppose that’s an enormous deal—however I hope they put somewhat extra worth into the individuals which can be truly pouring their juice into the sport. It positively looks like, for probably the most half, most corporations are crunching actually exhausting on individuals and it’s unhealthy information. As a result of these are artwork tasks and these persons are pouring their souls into it. It’s a fucking travesty. There’s a lot cash concerned that there’s no manner they’re going to let individuals actually do their factor. With stuff like Steam being such a strong neighborhood, at the very least indie devs and stuff can observe their hearts and make no matter bizarre sport they need. Stardew Valley is made by one man. It’s superior. His identification is simply throughout it. I need extra of that. Extra ardour tasks, you already know?

Really, we didn’t even contact on it, however I’m actually, actually fucking excited for VR. I’ve a pair of XREAL. They’re simply augmented actuality glasses, it’s not even the VR factor, however having that huge-ass display projected and also you’re simply laying in mattress enjoying Steam Deck is so sick to me. I like it and I feel VR is admittedly superb, too. They’ve a haptic swimsuit that hurts you. It has little pads throughout it. I don’t need that, however it’s superb.

Having a child, taking a look at this child and considering, I used to be born in 1990 and look what video video games appeared like. It was so primitive and to think about now—which, god prepared I’ll be alive when she’s 30—I simply can’t even think about what it’s gonna appear to be as a result of it’s simply accelerating. I’m simply actually excited to see how issues roll tech-wise. I feel VR is gonna be fully loopy. It’s gonna be some Prepared Participant One shit. I don’t suppose that’s far-fetched in any respect. I don’t know if that plot line is gonna roll out in entrance of our eyes or something, however I feel there will likely be a NordicTrack state of affairs the place VR is gonna be fairly concerned and it’s gonna be fairly thrilling. So, I’m excited for it to streamline and get somewhat extra reasonably priced for a short time earlier than I dive in fully. Half-Life: Alyx or no matter it was known as? Loopy.

You appear fairly excited in regards to the XREAL glasses. It offers you the phantasm of an enormous display in entrance of your eyes, proper?
Yeah. You simply plug it in—they appear to be a pair of Ray-Bans—and it simply tasks, like… I overlook what the display measurement is. I really feel prefer it’s 120 inches and it’s 4 or 8K, super-high decision display that simply form of floats. I at all times received [what] I used to name Terraria arm. After I would criminal my arms and play for too lengthy and my arms would go numb. Not cool. I actually prefer it as a result of it’s extra immersive to see that huge, shiny display at midnight and I can simply have my arms down in a relaxed state enjoying. I feel they’re fairly cool. It’s a type of issues, although, the place I really feel prefer it’s half tech at this level. It’s not fairly streamlined and pretty much as good as it may be, however I feel fairly sick general. It’s not suitable with all the things, although, which is form of lame. I assumed I’d be capable of apply it to the Swap, however it’s a must to purchase all this shit to hook as much as it. I suppose the Swap’s working system received up to date and it doesn’t work in any respect anymore or one thing, so it’s not that nice. However for the Steam Deck proper now, I like it. It’s loopy. The one draw back is that sure video games that should be scaled right down to even run on the Steam Deck actually present their put on if you’re taking a look at it on a brilliant huge-ass, excessive res display, which you’d count on. The Final of Us seems fairly fucking horrible on that display, whereas for those who take a look at it on the little Steam Deck display, it seems unbelievable. However yeah, I don’t know. These glasses are fairly cool. I ought to in all probability get into VR. Like I stated, I’m form of ready to see if it will get streamlined or possibly even adopted by extra video games. However that’s an inevitable for me as a result of I’m simply so excited by it.

Among the VR stuff has caught my [James] eye. However such as you stated simply when it comes to price on rollout, that’s somewhat past my worth worth vary for the time being.

Yeah, and I really feel like a few of these headsets go up into $1,000, $1,500 or one thing like that possibly, which is regular. That new tech is at all times like that. I feel I’m gonna get a PS5 as a result of I used to be so disenchanted with the Xbox, the primary time I ever received a Microsoft system. I’m positively gonna in all probability find yourself getting that bizarre moveable factor that they made for it [PlayStation Portal]. It’s so cool. Like I stated, I’m not gonna take my Steam Deck exterior. I’m simply gonna keep in my home, that’s the place I wish to play it. Getting one thing like that might be cool, however that’s fairly new tech and I really feel prefer it’s fairly premium priced proper now. As with all the things, that can turn into extra reasonably priced hopefully with time. Similar with the Steam Deck. That was fairly expensive. That was a splurge, however even that I used to be like, That is the most costly console I’ve ever bought. And it’s a PC. It’s fairly low cost for a gaming PC. Clearly it’s not top-bill energy or something, however for somebody like me that was by no means a PC gamer that at all times checked out Steam with envy and felt like I used to be lacking out on a lot shit, it’s good.

I see this on the on the Reddit for Steam Deck on a regular basis. It’s at all times new mother and father which can be similar to, “I assumed I might by no means be capable of play video video games once more”—which is ridiculous, however legitimate concern, I suppose. However then they’re like, “The Steam Deck is how I make it occur.” I don’t actually like enjoying video games on my TV, even. I’ve been into moveable methods from second one. I didn’t have an OG Gameboy, however I assumed they have been superb. I did, nevertheless, get a Gameboy Pocket. That was my first moveable system I received and I truthfully suppose I’ve owned, by some means, virtually each iteration of a transportable system. I had the Gameboy Shade, I had the SP, I received the DS, I received the DS Gentle for some purpose. I had the unique PSP, I had that fucking sick little PSP Go that was simply digital. I like that factor, it’s nonetheless insane. I nonetheless have that and I’m similar to, Man, If I used to be good, I might take this, as a result of it’s smaller than my cellphone and it flips up. It’s so sick. I couldn’t even consider it’s no disc drive. I used to be like, That’s so sick.

I’m actually enthusiastic about it. I don’t even play as a lot as in all probability loads of my gaming buddies play practically as a lot, however I like it. I usually love the tradition and I like seeing what’s coming. After they hit it proper, it’s superb. I by no means actually felt like video video games might attain the echelon of what you’d get from a movie or a guide. I simply didn’t suppose it mattered. It wasn’t even a disc. It’s a special medium. It’s interactive. It’s a completely completely different expertise. I get why it’s not going to hit that time, however there’s been video games now the place I’m similar to, That is virtually higher than any movie I’ve ever seen. I simply suppose that’s so thrilling.

Folks take video video games actually fucking severely these days. I imply, it’s a much bigger trade than Hollywood. There’s extra money in it. That’s a great factor for everyone. I imply, it’ll include negatives, however it’s thrilling as a result of persons are taking it actually, actually severely. I’ve watched documentaries about video video games once they have been new within the ’80s or no matter, within the late ’70s or no matter, and it was completely a novelty. Folks liked it, however I don’t suppose individuals have been taking a look at it like a official artwork kind for some time—and it’s. Proper now, it’s the identical manner with music. Totally different eras of know-how and completely different aesthetics, it’s all occurring now as a result of it’s a selected aesthetic. There’s PS1 demakes. PS1 graphics are a fascinating aesthetic now. For me, like I stated, I like pre-rendered backgrounds and I like the little shiny sprites from the Tremendous Nintendo shit. There was like a latest RPG that got here out on Steam, I overlook what it’s known as. I received it. I haven’t performed it a lot however it’s modeled completely after a Chrono Set off sort sport.

Sea of Stars.
That’s the one. It’s actually good. I’ve put in, like, two hours, however it’s stunning and I simply suppose it’s actually thrilling. There’s a neighborhood for each little type of sport you may probably think about and there’s aesthetic benefit. When you could have a Valheim the place it’s PS1 polygons with ray tracing mild, that’s a method and that’s intentional and it’s so fucking sick. It’s the identical factor with excessive music proper now. Actually each type ever, there’s a scene for it. Manufacturing is without doubt one of the thrilling components about music for me, and I’m certain you guys, too. After I hear an Arthur Rizk-produced steel file, there’s a lot intention there. Similar along with his noise data and all the things he does, I’m simply singling him out for some purpose. However he understands manufacturing sounds so particular. It’s all intentional right down to the way in which it’s blended. That intention’s so cool. Lots of people would name it bed room black steel, however a number of the actually uncooked, punky black steel the place it’s one man and he data it, individuals need it to sound fairly gnarly. The uncooked manufacturing is a part of it. That’s so cool to me, I like that. I see that in video video games, too. Identical to music, the truth that all of the instruments are there for individuals now and stuff like Steam is roaring more durable than ever, there’s by no means in all probability been a greater time to get into it. It doesn’t matter what individuals need, some dude’s on the market making it in all probability. Somebody’s on the market dreaming it up and so they have the flexibility. There’s no dickhead holding the keys, like with music 30, 40 years in the past if you wanted to have a significant with the keys or no matter. You don’t want them anymore. It’s cool. You get a man like that dude that made Stardew Valley and I’m simply amazed as a result of he’s similar to, “I’m gonna put up the massive replace everyone’s enthusiastic about once I get up tomorrow after I’ve a cup of espresso,” and also you’re similar to, Fuck, that is one man.

And video games don’t must be 100 hours, both. AAA, it’s the identical manner with radio rock or no matter to me. They’re so determined for a formulation that’s simply gonna make their cash. There are corporations on the market which can be simply gonna like attempt to examine these packing containers. The sport’s not good as a result of it takes you 200 hours to beat. I imply, I like loads of lengthy video games, however there’s one thing to be stated a couple of bite-size sport like Carrion or, I keep in mind this sport Firewatch. You guys ever heard of that one? I do not forget that being one of many first bite-size indie video games that I performed by means of. I performed by means of it in a single sitting and I used to be similar to, That is actually cool. Or Night time within the Woods was a cool one, too. Extra narrative pushed, such a great story and it doesn’t must be 100 hours. I don’t want to do that and that, it doesn’t have to examine packing containers. It’s this individual’s imaginative and prescient. The small crew, they made one thing actually cool, play by means of it in a sitting. It’s sick. I fucking like it. I like video video games proper now a lot. I purchase video games on Steam now on a regular basis, each sale. I’ve simply so many video games that I haven’t even performed, however I’m simply selecting them up as a result of they give the impression of being cool and I’ll get to them finally, possibly. Yeah, it’s thrilling. I really feel the identical manner about music. Good occasions.

My [Michael] sizzling take, which I truthfully don’t even suppose is that sizzling of a take: I feel that video video games are the head of human creativity thus far. Bar none.
Yeah, I feel so, too.

It incorporates each side of artwork and science into one medium that’s digestible and the important thing to entry is participation from the viewers.
That is going to sound heady and fairly goofy, however that is simply the place my head goes once I take into consideration these things too exhausting. I feel you may even put it on a better pedestal. These digital worlds—I imply, it’s primitive at this level—however it’s like they’re creating life in a manner. It’s probably the most resonant, high-purpose, godlike worship of existence that there might probably be, these individuals creating these these worlds of their picture or within the picture that they want to see. Are you able to even comprehend 100 years from now? Once more, goofy factor to say, however I actually suppose it in all probability might overtake each different visible medium, movie specifically. I simply suppose it might overtake it fully. Movie would by no means go away, however I agree with you. It’s tremendous essential and the place it’s going is much more thrilling as a result of it’s simply getting so immersive and that’s actually thrilling. I hope I can simply be plugged in and reside eternally. I’ll try this. Hopefully it might look higher than like Second Life.

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